commorancy
Newbie
Reged: 08/08/07
Posts: 14
Loc: 95014
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Not really. I've opened several new and old projects and they all can potentially do the hanging VST thing. As long as they contain those VSTs, it has a chance of hanging on load.
It's funny, though. If I run ProcessMonitor and monitor Cubase4.exe specifically, it slows the loading down just enough to prevent the hanging VST issue. If I let the app load without this tracing application running, then it has the potential to hang. Because of this behavior with ProcessMonitor, to me it appears to be some kind of racing condition that leaves the app hanging waiting on something. I was running ProcessMonitor in hopes that I could get it to hang while tracing the application and then I could send the trace to you. But, I can't seem to get Cubase 4 to hang with ProcessMonitor running (as I explained above).
Also, when the app does hang, I found out that Cubase4.exe remains in the process list and cannot be killed even though the interface eventually goes way. I've tried killing it with Task Manager and Process Explorer (even trying to kill the hanging thread internally) and it doesn't go away. I have to reboot to clear this process out. This is likely why there's no sound after these hangs... because the app doesn't fully exit.
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jeffdeno
guru
Reged: 05/31/05
Posts: 537
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It might be an issue with one of the plugin's in particular. I would do a test and isolating each one. but it also my just be a combination of those plugins together combined with the computer you are running it on.
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Jeff Deno
Application Specialist
Steinberg North America
Music Marketing Group
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commorancy
Newbie
Reged: 08/08/07
Posts: 14
Loc: 95014
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I would tend to agree that it may be a 'computer + vst' specific problem IF I had the same issue in SX 3. I don't and never have. That's the issue. Something has changed in the VST loading code between Cubase SX 3 and Cubase 4 to cause this problem. If I load a project in SX 3 with any or all of these VSTs, I never have a loading problem.
If I load a project in Cubase 4, it hangs. That's the issue. Again, SOMETHING has changed in the VST loading codebase between SX 3 and Cubase 4 that is now causing this issue. If it happened in BOTH applications, then yes I would attribute it to a hardware specific issue.
However, since SX 3 doesn't display this problem, then the problem HAS to be something that was introduced into the codebase in Cubase 4 (perhaps the programmers were trying to reduce loading times in VSTs?). There are few other explanations that fit.
BTW, knowing that it is related to the VST loading code should give the programmers a HUGE clue as to where to look in the code. If the programmers have a proper changelog, they can review that changelog to see what code may have been altered related to VST loading. If they still have the Cubase SX 3 branch and the Cubase 4 branch in CVS (or whatever version control they are using), they should even be able to take that code into WinMerge and look at the differences.
Knowing where to look for code changes is half the battle. Once you can isolate the problematic code, then you can review it for possible issues. Of course, if you can't easily reproduce the issue, it makes it more difficult to debug. But, seeing the changed code should allow the programmers to revisit the optimizations they may have made.
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commorancy
Newbie
Reged: 08/08/07
Posts: 14
Loc: 95014
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In answer to your first question (asking if it's just one VST), the answer is no. I've had it hang on FM8 in one project. In another, I had it hang on Battery 3. In another, I've had it hang on MOTU.
In all three of these projects, there wasn't one common VST. For example, in the FM8 project, I only have FM8 present and no other external VSTs. In the MOTU project, I only had MOTU present with no other VSTs.
So, it's not related to one specific VST.
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jeffdeno
guru
Reged: 05/31/05
Posts: 537
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i will do some further research on the subject. I have two out of the 3 vst's you are refering to and i don't seem to be having the same issues on my end. But i will do further testing and see if i can recreate the problem on my end.
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Jeff Deno
Application Specialist
Steinberg North America
Music Marketing Group
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commorancy
Newbie
Reged: 08/08/07
Posts: 14
Loc: 95014
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Jeff,
Thanks for looking into these issues. However, I have decided to move back to SX 3 and abandon using Cubase 4 at the present. The reasons are as follows:
* SX 3 loads all of my VSTs without issue
* Output sound from SX 3 sounds better than 4 (to my ears)
* I don't have to fight with the interface to get things done.
* The addition of the master control room interferes with the VSTs (sometimes you have to do extra configuration within the VST to get them to work, configuration that doesn't save)
* The new dynamic compression VST addition to Cubase 4 sounds bad and is hard to control (even though it has more presets and a prettier/simpler interface).
* It is possible to use the old dynamic compression VST in 4, but it's now on a very deep submenu making it inconvenient.
* When doing fast mixdowns, Cubase 4 has tendencies to cut certain samples off early or not play the sample at all (from specific VSTs) that play normally in real-time.
* When using set of somewhat high CPU load VSTs (at least on my system), it's sometimes impossible to do a real-time mixdown without skipping and audio glitching problems... leaving only a fast mixdown as an option. When the fast mixdown is combined with the above VST cut-off issue, it's impossible to get a mixdown at all without modifying the project.
* Cubase 4 accepts MIDI input during fast mixdown. So, while I'm waiting for a mixdown to finish, I like to diddle with my keyboard on new ideas. The audio mixdown ends up with random notes in the mix of the currently selected track on completion of the fast mixdown. Why doesn't Cubase 4 ignore MIDI input during a fast mixdown?
* In Cubase 4, resetting the audio device in the 'Devices->Device Setup...' panel no longer halts audio output. Any VST effects continue to play until the decay has completed. Cubase 3 stopped all effects by resetting the bus (other than external MIDI devices). In fact, there should be a single click button on the main panel that lets you stop all audio output no matter the source (i.e., it resets MIDI and it halts all VST output). This is handy when you want to begin a mixdown, but have to wait for the decay of a reverb or echo.
And, of course, all of the other issues I've already previously addressed. I'll just chalk my $200 upgrade fee up to experience. This is really one of the major issues with Steinberg software because you can't try before you buy.
I'll continue to watch for the next update of Cubase 4, give that a try and hope it resolves the majority of my issues.
Thanks for your help.
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jeffdeno
guru
Reged: 05/31/05
Posts: 537
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sounds good. I will send you a message when the next update is available.
--------------------
Jeff Deno
Application Specialist
Steinberg North America
Music Marketing Group
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