mark4man
Newbie
Reged: 09/10/06
Posts: 17
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From the WaveLab Help Files:
Quote:
The audio path in WaveLab uses 32 Bit floating point processing. You can therefore "overload" it, i.e. use levels above 0 dB, without running the risk of causing digital signal clipping in the signal path. The only section of the audio path that can introduce clipping is the output of the Master Section.
OK...
Since we don't seem to be getting anywhere on this topic...maybe I should ask my question in this way:
What the hell does it matter if you can "overload it...i.e. use levels above 0 dBFS"...if that "overload" never makes it to the output ??? When WaveLab (or any audio application) converts that overloaded 32-Bit floating point signal to integer to send to the audio card...& everything above 0 dBFS is clipped...we're not hearing an "overload free" signal anyway, in our studio monitors...theoretically...are we?
So then what's the point ??? (no pun intended.)
But I think we somehow are; & I think there has to be some other factor at play here....something in the way WaveLab perhaps processes that overloaded signal prior to sending it to the output...because...If I take a multitrack montage that has a peak signal of +6 dB & listen to it...listen to the playback...it sounds much different that if I bounce it to a 24-Bit .wav. It sounds cleaner (& for some reason distortion free.) In the 24-Bit bounce, it has some scratch.
BUT THERE SHOULDN'T BE ANY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PLAYBACK & RENDER...since playback essentially encompasses the same thing...the 32-Bit floating point mix is truncated to 24-Bit to be sent to the audio card. Exact same thing happens in a bounce.
So...there has to be some factor as to why playback sounds better....why what we're hearing sounds better.
Am I the only soul left on earth asking this question? This is important sh_t, is it not?
mark4man
BTW - While we're on the subject...are there any white papers from Steinberg hangin' around the web that detail exactly what WaveLab does send to the audio card; & how that signal is routed/processed?
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mark4man
Newbie
Reged: 09/10/06
Posts: 17
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UPDATE:
[Couldn't get back into my original post...too much time had expired]...
Please still answer the first two parts of my question (still very important to me)...but...related to it all...I recently learned from the mfg. of my audio interface (Lynx Aurora8/AES16) that their ASIO drivers accept a 32-Bit "container", w/ 24-Bit data...from the software.
So...how does this fit w/ the scheme of things...is this what WaveLab actually sends out?
Thanks very much,
mark4man
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ChrisDobbs
Guru
Reged: 05/31/05
Posts: 1067
Loc: Indy
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Wow, this in-depth. Let me check with our developers to see if they can help with the explanation. I'll post it here as soon as I get something concrete. Thank you.
--------------------
Chris Dobbs
Steinberg Support
www.steinberg.net
www.steinbergupgrades.com
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mark4man
Newbie
Reged: 09/10/06
Posts: 17
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Chris...
Thanks very much!...the explanation will be very much appreciated.
mark4man
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ChrisDobbs
Guru
Reged: 05/31/05
Posts: 1067
Loc: Indy
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Hello,
I think Philippe discussed this with you on the cubase.net forum, http://forum.cubase.net/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=80805
I'm sorry that I don't have much to add to the conversation. Thank you.
--------------------
Chris Dobbs
Steinberg Support
www.steinberg.net
www.steinbergupgrades.com
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mark4man
Newbie
Reged: 09/10/06
Posts: 17
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Chris...
He did give me a generic type answer (reletive to what the audio card is set up to receive)...& he also offered an explanation as to what Lynx may have meant by stating that their ASIO drivers accept a 32-Bit "container" w/ 24-Bit data...(& that also aided the discussion.) But he never confirmed if that's what WaveLab actually sends out (as an output signal) to the Lynx.
I'll wait for him if that's what you want me to do.
mark4man
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ChrisDobbs
Guru
Reged: 05/31/05
Posts: 1067
Loc: Indy
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Sorry, wish I had a better answer for you. It would seem to me that perhaps what Wavelab sends out is in some way dependent on the sound card. But to be honest, I don't really know.
--------------------
Chris Dobbs
Steinberg Support
www.steinberg.net
www.steinbergupgrades.com
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mark4man
Newbie
Reged: 09/10/06
Posts: 17
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Chris...
Well then, why can't Phillipe respond to this question?
It really dosen't seem like it's too much to ask in attempting to find out what WaveLab sends to the audio card. This is one of the great mysteries (to me) in PC-based recording...what the DAW sends to the hardware, specifically. (Well...maybe not a mystery)...but an area where the digital musician has very little information to turn to from the DAW mfg.'s. And it's really an important area of understanding...because, even tho the DAW operates at an internal floating point precision...that's not what we hear in our monitors. I just wanted an answer to that basic question, that's all. And it doesn't necessarily have to come from a support tech...you can refer me to any white papers from Steinberg, as an example....or a WaveLab block diagram or flow chart w/ corresponding values...something...anything. Please
Thanks,
mark4man
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ChrisDobbs
Guru
Reged: 05/31/05
Posts: 1067
Loc: Indy
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Hello,
I was looking through the manual, does this help?
"About 20-, 24- and 32-bit float files
You do not need a 20- or 24-bit audio card to take advantage of the fact that WaveLab can handle 20- and 24-bit audio files. Any processing or editing performed on the files is always done at full resolution, even if your card doesn’t support the full resolution. For playback, WaveLab automatically adapts to whatever card you have installed."
I know its from the section before what you are quoting about 32 bit files. I would imagine though that what it is saying about 20 to 24 bit sound card processing is the same as 32 bit. Wavelab adapts the sound card being used for playback.
--------------------
Chris Dobbs
Steinberg Support
www.steinberg.net
www.steinbergupgrades.com
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mark4man
Newbie
Reged: 09/10/06
Posts: 17
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Chris...
PG answered my questions.
Thanks,
mark4man
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